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	<title>Comments on: Position Sizing &#8211; Size Really Does Matter</title>
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	<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/</link>
	<description>Fusing Fundamental and Technical Analysis with lashings of Behavioural Finance. Investing in Australia and North America.</description>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1708</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1708</guid>
		<description>Hi Justin, perhaps it wouldn&#039;t work in a conventional mutual fund but isn&#039;t this what a lot of hedge funds do ? Concentrate on a particular strategy. I suppose with drawdowns, you have to have the outperformance to justify that but if you have the runs on the board people will probably stick but you&#039;ve got to have the back to not take withdrawals personally. It also depends on selecting investors who have a simillar philosphy to investing as you do. I read this on Michael Burry today. Sounds like an interesting guy. 

http://streetcapitalist.com/2010/03/24/learning-from-michael-burry/

&quot;I have always believed that a single talented analyst, working very hard, can cover an amazing amount of investment landscape, and this belief remains unchallenged in my mind.&quot;

&quot;A lot of clients were glad to be done with it in the end… Perhaps I’d made the trade too big… It’s remarkable. There are investors that made tens of millions of dollars out of this, and they’re still pretty upset.&quot;

&quot;Thank you for visiting. Dr. Michael Burry has liquidated Scion Capital, LLC and is currently focusing on his private investments. Dr. Burry is not accepting outside investors.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Justin, perhaps it wouldn&#8217;t work in a conventional mutual fund but isn&#8217;t this what a lot of hedge funds do ? Concentrate on a particular strategy. I suppose with drawdowns, you have to have the outperformance to justify that but if you have the runs on the board people will probably stick but you&#8217;ve got to have the back to not take withdrawals personally. It also depends on selecting investors who have a simillar philosphy to investing as you do. I read this on Michael Burry today. Sounds like an interesting guy. </p>
<p><a href="http://streetcapitalist.com/2010/03/24/learning-from-michael-burry/" rel="nofollow">http://streetcapitalist.com/2010/03/24/learning-from-michael-burry/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I have always believed that a single talented analyst, working very hard, can cover an amazing amount of investment landscape, and this belief remains unchallenged in my mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;A lot of clients were glad to be done with it in the end… Perhaps I’d made the trade too big… It’s remarkable. There are investors that made tens of millions of dollars out of this, and they’re still pretty upset.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Thank you for visiting. Dr. Michael Burry has liquidated Scion Capital, LLC and is currently focusing on his private investments. Dr. Burry is not accepting outside investors.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Morel</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1698</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Morel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1698</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the insight Justin. I&#039;m sure that is one of many problems in managing OPM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the insight Justin. I&#8217;m sure that is one of many problems in managing OPM.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1697</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1697</guid>
		<description>&quot;I concede large portfolios may necessitate more positions as may certain investment strategies. I further concede I’ve never managed OPM and if I ever do then perhaps I’ll be wracked with more doubt than usual and so settle on 3% positions. Finally I may be totally wrong and if so I’d love to know why before I complete my return trip from diversified back to concentrated.&quot;

Well, I do manage OPM and it&#039;s unfortunately simply not feasible to follow a concentrated portfolio strategy when you are dealing with 99% of clients. This is simply because most people, despite what they tell you, have no real conception of risk and return. They just cannot tolerate a 10% loss in their portfolio. Most people believe that the stockmarket provides a regular 10% return - losses are what happens to other people, the stuff they read about in the paper or see on the news. And when a blowup does occur, they&#039;re shocked and go through the usual stages of shock, disbelief, anger etc etc.

Seriously, no matter how many times you tell someone that they could lose a part or all of their investment, they&#039;re always amazed when it actually occurs. And of course the larger the loss, the more extreme the reaction. Managing a concentrated portfolio for OPM is unfortunately a quick way to either lose clients or be sued. Most people simply cannot live with losing 10% of their portfolio (or more) in one hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I concede large portfolios may necessitate more positions as may certain investment strategies. I further concede I’ve never managed OPM and if I ever do then perhaps I’ll be wracked with more doubt than usual and so settle on 3% positions. Finally I may be totally wrong and if so I’d love to know why before I complete my return trip from diversified back to concentrated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I do manage OPM and it&#8217;s unfortunately simply not feasible to follow a concentrated portfolio strategy when you are dealing with 99% of clients. This is simply because most people, despite what they tell you, have no real conception of risk and return. They just cannot tolerate a 10% loss in their portfolio. Most people believe that the stockmarket provides a regular 10% return &#8211; losses are what happens to other people, the stuff they read about in the paper or see on the news. And when a blowup does occur, they&#8217;re shocked and go through the usual stages of shock, disbelief, anger etc etc.</p>
<p>Seriously, no matter how many times you tell someone that they could lose a part or all of their investment, they&#8217;re always amazed when it actually occurs. And of course the larger the loss, the more extreme the reaction. Managing a concentrated portfolio for OPM is unfortunately a quick way to either lose clients or be sued. Most people simply cannot live with losing 10% of their portfolio (or more) in one hit.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1695</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1695</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know much about PRY, I&#039;ve just considered it lately as it&#039;s gone down. I haven&#039;t bought into it in the past. 

I&#039;d go with a sum of parts for valuing it. wrt to your points :
1. Sales: People got a bit too excited about pathology in the past. To me it&#039;s like a regulated utility. Some of the reduced revenue was due to their GP practise part charging a co-payment. They maybe able to get this through over time with the GP centres but where they&#039;re located I&#039;m not sure this will be as much as they expect. I think there is little scope for PRY or Sonic being able to implement co-payments for pathology services to preserve their margins. There is no direct relationship between the pathology provider and the patient. Few people are going to be willing to pay a gap for pathology services and if they try to introduce this, it will encourage new entrants into the market. I guess it depends on whether the government prices are rock bottom or whether there is still a reasonable margin. Even if they were able to get the co-payments for pathology this would probably encourage less pathology ordering and affect their volume. So you can&#039;t have it both ways. 
2. Low ROE due to pathology
3. Same management still in place as far as I am aware
4. Low NTA. Huge amount of goodwill. Arguably this is what can I say ?creative accounting. They used to pay GP&#039;s for their practise and the GP&#039;s would be on contract for 5 years. After 5 years I&#039;d argue that goodwill is not worth much. 
5. High debt at high rates when they bought Symbion, ?10% for the first year or so from what I can gather. Their interest expenses should go down even in a rising rate environment.

Their business model is not one that I am very keen on. There are lots of perceived conflicts of interests with them owning pathology and medical centres that write referrals for this. I think it&#039;s likely to get negative regulator and government attention over time. 

I think the pathology business (40%) is like a utility that I would buy on a PER of 9. The Medical centres (40%) I am not that keen on but would buy on a PER of 9. The health information bit (?5%) is worth a PE of 20 to me.  

So I would buy it on a 9 PE or less (or about $3 at the current period). It may never get there, but the business model, management, track record and fundamentals are poorer than for Ramsay. Unfortuanately Ramsay has gone up a lot to reflect that. Still things happen in cycles and at some stage Ramsay will face pricing pressures also. Neither of them are solid businesses like Woolworths and are subject to more competition and government regulation risk. 

For an earlier version of PRY, ONT is interesting. I had a look at it but haven&#039;t bought any. I don&#039;t know much about dentistry but this might be more amenable to corporatisation than the medical area where the medicare system means patient goodwill is worth less. At a PE of 15 for a microcap it seems a bit overpriced though. 

As always, everyone should do their own research and this isn&#039;t a recommendation to buy or sell anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know much about PRY, I&#8217;ve just considered it lately as it&#8217;s gone down. I haven&#8217;t bought into it in the past. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d go with a sum of parts for valuing it. wrt to your points :<br />
1. Sales: People got a bit too excited about pathology in the past. To me it&#8217;s like a regulated utility. Some of the reduced revenue was due to their GP practise part charging a co-payment. They maybe able to get this through over time with the GP centres but where they&#8217;re located I&#8217;m not sure this will be as much as they expect. I think there is little scope for PRY or Sonic being able to implement co-payments for pathology services to preserve their margins. There is no direct relationship between the pathology provider and the patient. Few people are going to be willing to pay a gap for pathology services and if they try to introduce this, it will encourage new entrants into the market. I guess it depends on whether the government prices are rock bottom or whether there is still a reasonable margin. Even if they were able to get the co-payments for pathology this would probably encourage less pathology ordering and affect their volume. So you can&#8217;t have it both ways.<br />
2. Low ROE due to pathology<br />
3. Same management still in place as far as I am aware<br />
4. Low NTA. Huge amount of goodwill. Arguably this is what can I say ?creative accounting. They used to pay GP&#8217;s for their practise and the GP&#8217;s would be on contract for 5 years. After 5 years I&#8217;d argue that goodwill is not worth much.<br />
5. High debt at high rates when they bought Symbion, ?10% for the first year or so from what I can gather. Their interest expenses should go down even in a rising rate environment.</p>
<p>Their business model is not one that I am very keen on. There are lots of perceived conflicts of interests with them owning pathology and medical centres that write referrals for this. I think it&#8217;s likely to get negative regulator and government attention over time. </p>
<p>I think the pathology business (40%) is like a utility that I would buy on a PER of 9. The Medical centres (40%) I am not that keen on but would buy on a PER of 9. The health information bit (?5%) is worth a PE of 20 to me.  </p>
<p>So I would buy it on a 9 PE or less (or about $3 at the current period). It may never get there, but the business model, management, track record and fundamentals are poorer than for Ramsay. Unfortuanately Ramsay has gone up a lot to reflect that. Still things happen in cycles and at some stage Ramsay will face pricing pressures also. Neither of them are solid businesses like Woolworths and are subject to more competition and government regulation risk. </p>
<p>For an earlier version of PRY, ONT is interesting. I had a look at it but haven&#8217;t bought any. I don&#8217;t know much about dentistry but this might be more amenable to corporatisation than the medical area where the medicare system means patient goodwill is worth less. At a PE of 15 for a microcap it seems a bit overpriced though. </p>
<p>As always, everyone should do their own research and this isn&#8217;t a recommendation to buy or sell anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Morel</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1694</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Morel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1694</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean, I had a quick look at PRY and if I had more time would do a write-up. Here&#039;s a few things for you to think about and answer if you wish. 
- Sales in the recent half were down year on year. Always a bad sign. Though I guess that&#039;s why the shares look so cheap now.
- ROE has and is terrible. 
- The purchase of Symbion appears to have been a poor acquisition. Is the same management still in place? What are their views on this?
- Negative NTA.
- High debt, could hurt in the current rising interest rate environment.
- Low cash flow. I don&#039;t have the interim report up anymore, but IIRC once you deduct capex from operational cash flow the business is not generation much cash at all.

On the plus side. If management are to be believed (how&#039;s their track record?) then 15% growth in EBITDA for the next two on trailing eps of 39c or forward (double interim) of 33c makes the current price look attractive and a double in two years seem possible. First I&#039;d need to get comfortable with the above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean, I had a quick look at PRY and if I had more time would do a write-up. Here&#8217;s a few things for you to think about and answer if you wish.<br />
- Sales in the recent half were down year on year. Always a bad sign. Though I guess that&#8217;s why the shares look so cheap now.<br />
- ROE has and is terrible.<br />
- The purchase of Symbion appears to have been a poor acquisition. Is the same management still in place? What are their views on this?<br />
- Negative NTA.<br />
- High debt, could hurt in the current rising interest rate environment.<br />
- Low cash flow. I don&#8217;t have the interim report up anymore, but IIRC once you deduct capex from operational cash flow the business is not generation much cash at all.</p>
<p>On the plus side. If management are to be believed (how&#8217;s their track record?) then 15% growth in EBITDA for the next two on trailing eps of 39c or forward (double interim) of 33c makes the current price look attractive and a double in two years seem possible. First I&#8217;d need to get comfortable with the above.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.fusioninvesting.com/2010/03/position-sizing-size-really-does-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1690</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fusioninvesting.com/?p=5292#comment-1690</guid>
		<description>Hi Dean, position sizing and position balancing are certainly important and I spend a bit of time thinking about it. Currently I have 25% of my portfolio in TLS at a marginal profit. I&#039;m not sure why. Actually I do know, I bought it because I thought it was a sure thing. Everything else which was a 3-5% position (other than the index which was a 60% position) reached my price target so I&#039;ve sold. I like to enter swing trades for 10-20% with a 1-3 month timeframe. The core TLS holding has been holding back my performance significantly. 

At them moment everything looks fully valued to me, although I&#039;m running the ruler over EHL and PRY. 

From my experience the sure things or deep value investments turn out to be the least profitable. So I reckon in retrospect I should have taken bigger positions in attractive situations eg in the last 3 months WOW at 25, RHC at 10. Although they were attractive they were not at load up the truck valuations. But they also had good fundamentals, 10 year track records and reasonable management. Interestingly Intelleigent investor rated their performance and their Excellent/sure thing buys did the worst also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dean, position sizing and position balancing are certainly important and I spend a bit of time thinking about it. Currently I have 25% of my portfolio in TLS at a marginal profit. I&#8217;m not sure why. Actually I do know, I bought it because I thought it was a sure thing. Everything else which was a 3-5% position (other than the index which was a 60% position) reached my price target so I&#8217;ve sold. I like to enter swing trades for 10-20% with a 1-3 month timeframe. The core TLS holding has been holding back my performance significantly. </p>
<p>At them moment everything looks fully valued to me, although I&#8217;m running the ruler over EHL and PRY. </p>
<p>From my experience the sure things or deep value investments turn out to be the least profitable. So I reckon in retrospect I should have taken bigger positions in attractive situations eg in the last 3 months WOW at 25, RHC at 10. Although they were attractive they were not at load up the truck valuations. But they also had good fundamentals, 10 year track records and reasonable management. Interestingly Intelleigent investor rated their performance and their Excellent/sure thing buys did the worst also.</p>
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